CHARTS, DEPARTURES, ARRIVALS AND ALL THINGS NETWORK RELATED

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UAL008 Keith Rocke

CHARTS, DEPARTURES, ARRIVALS AND ALL THINGS NETWORK RELATED

Post by UAL008 Keith Rocke » September 19th, 2016, 11:28 am

Good morning Pilots. This is an ADVISORY NOTICE to each and every Pilot who flies ONLINE - The Network - whether it be on VATSIM® or IVAO®.

Management has received a complaint from the IAD ATM (Air Traffic Manager) regarding the FAILURE of many pilots - participants in the Big 3 event this past Saturday - to fly the DEPARTURE PROCEDURES (SID) AS PUBLISHED heading out of Dulles Int'l.

In defense of our pilots (a position Mgm't will usually take), Dulles ARTCC may have been overwhelmed by the number of aircraft heading down to Orlando. IIRC... there was a Ground Controller, a Tower Controller and a Center Controller. IMHO, the scope of this event's traffic movements required an Approach/Departure Controller. This last position was un-staffed. Overall, the general FOCUS is... 'they' were unprepared.

As a controller myself... and vUAL has quite a few member pilots who are also VATSIM® rated controllers... the GND Controller did his BEST (IMHO) in working the conga line - getting planes out of gates and into taxi for the RWY 30 departure. My personal experience was... when told to switch to the TWR frequency... all voice communication ceased. Because we were all on Teamspeak, UAL500 heard the TWR controller transmit the instruction to me UAL8... but I never heard it. So, UAL500 became the go-between. There was also a pilot/aircfaft - told to line up and wait (LUW) on RWY 30 and subsequently cleared for take-off - who at the last minute it was discovered that his departure clearance was INVALID. "Yeah!". That single situation further gummed up the already SLOW conga line.

Having said the above, it is IMPERATIVE that pilots familiarize themselves with SIDS and STARS and be able to fly either AS PUBLISHED unless otherwise instructed by the appropriate Controller... no IFS, ANDS or BUTS!!!

In the APPROVED departure out of IAD, the altitude CONSTRAINT was 3000'. The complaint from the ATM is/was... pilots were BUSTING the altitude constraint anywhere from 5000' and up to 10000'. That is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE (as a hobbyist pilot on the network) and - in the real world - the WRATH of the FAA and the AIRLINE ends your career.

Overall, the event was wonderful. Thanks to you guys for making this a BIG one. We have more coming.

For those who don't have charts in the cockpit? Visit http://www.airnav.com for complete charts within the US Airspace. Navigraph (for a fee) also provides charts. Airnav dot com is FREE.



Keith VP-Events
1085341

UAL909 Filipe Nunez
Posts: 111
Joined: August 4th, 2013, 3:12 pm
Location: Cicero, IL

Re: CHARTS, DEPARTURES, ARRIVALS AND ALL THINGS NETWORK RELATED

Post by UAL909 Filipe Nunez » September 19th, 2016, 5:54 pm

ditto..... I wasn't there but I agree you MUST follow alt constraints on approved deps and arrivals, specially in busy crowded class B airspace (KIAD,KDCA,KBWI) among others but others are "less busy"....that's one reason I avoid the upper east coast the other is mad ATCs....lets thanks management for taking the heat for this, felt like a spanking with a candy given in the end :-p
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UAL001 Gary Price
CEO
Posts: 1115
Joined: January 7th, 2012, 6:12 pm
Location: Irvine, CA

Re: CHARTS, DEPARTURES, ARRIVALS AND ALL THINGS NETWORK RELATED

Post by UAL001 Gary Price » September 19th, 2016, 8:52 pm

Just some quick thoughts:

1. GREAT TURNOUT for the event! Thank you to all who set it up and all the pilots who showed up.
2. It is ALWAYS the responsibility of the PIC to know how to fly the entire flightplan, and that includes the departure and approach. No exceptions.
3. Network issues are part of the VATSIM (and IVAO) equation. There is nothing any of us can do about it... Its a free service being provided and everyone's Internet provider is different and the equipment we use to talk to each other is different.

I mentioned each one of these items to DC ARTCC in my note back, and all is well.

I hope we continue to get great turnouts for future events like we did on Saturday!

Thanks!

Gary
Gary Price
UAL001
Chief Executive Officer
Virtual United Airlines

UAL043 David Cross
Posts: 67
Joined: February 18th, 2018, 11:12 pm

Re: CHARTS, DEPARTURES, ARRIVALS AND ALL THINGS NETWORK RELATED

Post by UAL043 David Cross » July 8th, 2018, 8:31 am

I was not a member of UAL when this event took place. But i remember when i first started flying on line SID'S & STARS' were very daunting to me. They made absolutely no sense. Now i have 100's of hours of online ATC as a PIC. I am very comfortable with just about any departure and arrival out there. If there are any new UAL pilots which mostly fly off line due to being apprehensive about flying on a network because of these procedures, i am more than willing to help close that learning curve for you. I am not suggesting i am an expert by any means. I am not a real pilot, although i have started taking lessons in a 172. In the real world. I fly every day on Pilot Edge, so I'm very comfortable with real world procedures and proper ATC protocol. Did you know saying "with you at FL240" is a pet peeve to most controllers?. Just a simple report of altitude is what they want.... not a with you. That totally clogs up the air with useless airtime on a busy night. Anyway. I don't have a lot of time and I'm not really able to show you how to program your FMS or MCDU. but there are tons of You Tube videos out there for that. I'm offering basic instruction to those who are totally lost when they look at a procedure. And if that is the reason you are not jumping on line i would love to help. Because flying online is way more fun than flying solo. One thing though before i render any assistance. i will need to verify you are atleast P1 certified on VATSIM. All that is is a short coarse of the rules and regulations of flying on vatsim. I personally have my P1, P2, and P4 IFR Certifications. So say you want to fly from Boston to Philly. You look at all those SIDS and are just lost. Give me a shout we'll set aside 30 minutes to an hour on TS and i'll share my screen to take a look at the charts. So let me know the flight you'd like to learn how to fly using ATC and procedures and off we go. If i don't know of an answer i will find it for you.

I'd like to add vUAL has a partnership with VATSTAR. (Training tab ). Vatstar has outstanding training. I would highly recommend obtaining atleast the certs up to P4. Most of their training is realvent to real world process too.

Feel free to reach out.
Blue Skies
Dave.
--
David Cross – UAL043

Chicago – O’Hare

Assistant Hub Manager

kordahm@virtualunitedairlines.org

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UAL331 John Orton
Posts: 5
Joined: August 13th, 2018, 7:01 pm

Re: CHARTS, DEPARTURES, ARRIVALS AND ALL THINGS NETWORK RELATED

Post by UAL331 John Orton » August 22nd, 2018, 11:12 pm

UAL043 David Cross wrote:
July 8th, 2018, 8:31 am
I was not a member of UAL when this event took place. But i remember when i first started flying on line SID'S & STARS' were very daunting to me. They made absolutely no sense. Now i have 100's of hours of online ATC as a PIC. I am very comfortable with just about any departure and arrival out there. If there are any new UAL pilots which mostly fly off line due to being apprehensive about flying on a network because of these procedures, i am more than willing to help close that learning curve for you. I am not suggesting i am an expert by any means. I am not a real pilot, although i have started taking lessons in a 172. In the real world. I fly every day on Pilot Edge, so I'm very comfortable with real world procedures and proper ATC protocol. Did you know saying "with you at FL240" is a pet peeve to most controllers?. Just a simple report of altitude is what they want.... not a with you. That totally clogs up the air with useless airtime on a busy night. Anyway. I don't have a lot of time and I'm not really able to show you how to program your FMS or MCDU. but there are tons of You Tube videos out there for that. I'm offering basic instruction to those who are totally lost when they look at a procedure. And if that is the reason you are not jumping on line i would love to help. Because flying online is way more fun than flying solo. One thing though before i render any assistance. i will need to verify you are atleast P1 certified on VATSIM. All that is is a short coarse of the rules and regulations of flying on vatsim. I personally have my P1, P2, and P4 IFR Certifications. So say you want to fly from Boston to Philly. You look at all those SIDS and are just lost. Give me a shout we'll set aside 30 minutes to an hour on TS and i'll share my screen to take a look at the charts. So let me know the flight you'd like to learn how to fly using ATC and procedures and off we go. If i don't know of an answer i will find it for you.

I'd like to add vUAL has a partnership with VATSTAR. (Training tab ). Vatstar has outstanding training. I would highly recommend obtaining atleast the certs up to P4. Most of their training is realvent to real world process too.

Feel free to reach out.
Blue Skies
Dave.

Hi Dave,
I just finished my P1 training and that was a huge help. I was one that only flew off line 122,800 sq 1200 lol only because it was too daunting not to be the one in control and have to adapt on the fly with someone elses instructions. I have done a few live flights so far, one was good the other was a disaster. (no fault of the controller). In the training you are told that initial contact with the tower ,,, or whomever is online at the time should be their callsign, your call sign, your position, that you have current ATIS and looking for clearance as filed to XXXX airport. My response from Center at that time was "you just need to ask for clearance I don't need all the other stuff" so that was a bit confusing. So now I am left in wonder of what is the exact expectations controllers are looking for. As mentioned The first contact is for clearance but I gave too much information. The second contact should be the read back of the clearance instructions. Third would be push back and taxi request and read back. Fourth should be announcing holding short of runway and reading back take off clearance. Then following instructions of the controller until out of range.

I have watched several youtube vids on the contact and interaction with tower and as I said done the P1 course but still left with the feeling there is a standard protocol most controllers expect and what they don't want to hear. Is there a reference source for a crash course in interaction with controllers other than VATSTAR? I have been picking up just listening in on towers and such but don't want to pick up any bad habits yet..... LOL
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UAL043 David Cross
Posts: 67
Joined: February 18th, 2018, 11:12 pm

Re: CHARTS, DEPARTURES, ARRIVALS AND ALL THINGS NETWORK RELATED

Post by UAL043 David Cross » August 23rd, 2018, 6:15 pm

--
David Cross – UAL043

Chicago – O’Hare

Assistant Hub Manager

kordahm@virtualunitedairlines.org

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